Interview By Stan Cierlitsky
Having recently reviewed the superb new Spearmint album, Are You From The Future?, I was thrilled to get the chance to sit down and have a chat with Shirley Lee from the band.
Stan: With the band only ever achieving moderate success, what is driving you to continue (and thank God you are)?
SHIRLEY LEE: Well, this is all down to how you, or we, define success. If we had set out to make money, or sell lots of records, or get famous, then we wouldn't have gone about it this way! But, we set out to try and make albums that we would be really proud of... I suppose to see how close we can get to making a perfect album. With this definition, we have been successful, as we have made several albums that we're really proud of... but we haven't made a perfect record yet, so that keeps us motivated.
Stan: I called you out in the review I did for your new album for having never released a "best of" album. With 9 studio albums in the books (not including 2 superb solo albums), 2 compilations, and about 30 singles, why haven't you released a best of yet? Also, if you were going to do it, would you allow your fans to vote for the songs that should be included (that was so cool that you allowed your fans to do that for your Water Rats show in 2017)?
SHIRLEY LEE: You can blame me for this – I don't like "Best Of's". I love albums, and the idea of trying to reduce a band to the highlights and putting them all on one record seems misjudged to me. I don't like the "Best Of's" that I've bought by other artists over the years, and I am gradually getting rid of them – I'd rather start with their most popular album and go on from there. Also, what would you put on it? I'm not sure that people's combined favourite tracks would give a full picture – you'd end up with nobody happy. Nowadays anyone can make their favourite playlist easily enough and that makes sense to me. I did enjoy the show we did where the fans chose the songs though – that made perfect sense live and I'd like to do it again at some point.
Stan: Have you ever toured the States, even back in the A Week Away era? Is it possible there could be a future US tour? Believe it or not, at 50 years old, I still go to my fair share of gigs and you guys have been on my bucket=list for years.
SHIRLEY LEE: We have only played in the States once: at Brooklyn Pop Fest in 2014. We would love to come back – it's just a question of not losing loads of money in order to do it… I think it will happen though.
Stan: I have seen that you have hosted DJ sets, so obviously you are tuned into music. Are you keeping current with new bands, or are you mostly listening to older stuff? If you are listening to new bands, which ones would you like to spread the word about?
SHIRLEY LEE: I am absolutely loving music at the moment, and I still go vinyl shopping every Saturday. I'm discovering lots of older stuff that I didn't know about and now find myself open to albums that I wouldn't have given a chance when I was younger. The new stuff I'm enjoying out of London is coming from King Krule, Little Simz, The Comet Is Coming, and I like Boogarins from Brazil and Tenesha The Wordsmith from Oakland… so all coming from a slightly different direction to us, but it's the same thing really: stories and emotions conveyed via music.
Stan: I believe you have mostly self released all of your music through your hitBACK label. Do you think that was advantageous in hindsight? Why, or why not?
SHIRLEY LEE: It was such a good move – I'm positive that we wouldn't be making music now if we'd signed with someone else's label. They would have given us a proper go at becoming well-known, and pushed us to tour a lot, and it would have failed commercially and then they would have dropped us and then we would have had to deal with that. It usually ends the bands who do sign… so they split up. Then 15 years later they wonder why they split up and get back together again. We've neatly side-stepped all that and just focused on making albums and doing gigs that seem worthwhile. It's been hard financially – we basically have to do day-jobs to keep ourselves alive, but that's the case for anyone, isn't it… and we're really fortunate that we get the chance to make the records.
Stan: I love your quote on your website where you say, "We are trying to make perfect Pop which means something." What do you believe is the definition of perfect Pop? Which of your contemporaries do you think are making perfect Pop?
SHIRLEY LEE: Yes, I think that quote is true. Pop is just about good tunes isn't it. Even if the lyrics are meaningless, people don't care, because they imprint their own meanings onto the words. For me though, when you hear a brilliant tune and it's also got lyrics that really do mean something, it elevates it to a whole new level. I think the Bacharach and David tunes represent perfect Pop. Bacharach's tunes are the greatest, but actually [Hal] David's lyrics take those songs up to perfection. When you know that "Say A Little Prayer" is about Vietnam, or you listen to the deceptive simplicity of "Walk On By", or I'll Never Fall In Love Again", you hear just how high this art-form can get. Motown did it too – I mean listen to "What's Going On"!
Stan: So, I know your debut album was well-received and I bet your new one will be too. Of the 9 albums in between (please do include your two solo albums), which do you feel most proud of? Why?
SHIRLEY LEE: For me, our best album is A Different Lifetime. It's an ambitious concept album about a relationship, and I'm immensely proud of it. The Shirley Lee album is one of my favourites too, because it's such a warm, romantic set of songs. I'd also recommend Paris In A Bottle, another concept album, but very Pop. As you say, A Week Away and the new album, Are You From The Future? are right up there too.
Stan: Speaking of your two solo albums, what makes them different from Spearmint albums? Is it different personnel? On your Spearmint website you refer to Shirley Lee as a Spearmint album. My two favorites from that album "Walked Away" and "The Smack of Pavement In Your Face" both would sound perfect on that aforementioned [hypothetical] Best of Spearmint.
SHIRLEY LEE: Well, the Shirley Lee album was made by Spearmint – we were just experimenting by making it by Shirley Lee, as it's such a personal album. We treat it as a Spearmint album. The second Shirley Lee album Winter Autumn Summer Spring was a proper solo album – just me for a thirty-song double-album! As with most double albums, my conclusion is that it would have made a great single album – some of my best songs are on there… but then I knew I was getting into the perils of the double-album when I did it, that's the way I wanted it.
Stan: Are there any interesting stories or anecdotes that you would like to share about the making of your new album, Are You From The Future? As I mentioned earlier, it’s hard for a Spearmint fan to find good stories.
SHIRLEY LEE: I don't know about good stories. We made it on weekends and evenings across the best part of a year, which seemed really slow to me, but I think it paid off. A lot of the time was spent with me and our producer JB drinking tea, eating biscuits and moaning about Brexit. He made us take the songs to bits and re-assemble them. He made me take songs away and improve them. He pushed us really hard and I think it was worth it.
Thanks to Shirley Lee for taking the time for this interview.
Are You From The Future? is out now via hitBACK.
More details on Spearmint via the band's official website, Spearmint.net, or the band's official Facebook page.
[Photo: Shirley Lee]